Please help me understand how Tim has allowed the gun stats to get to this level?
The gun stats now are honestly retarded..Each gun doesn't have its own sence of worth now becase each gun has the EXACT same stats...Before, the old gun stats each gun had its own type of sparring style.. Now each gun spars/pk's the same.
It is extremely hard to spar/pk with any gun in the price range of 10k-290k.. vs a gun anything higher than that..Before The gun stats were changed anyone could get owned with a uzi, doens't matter if they are using an Mp5 Navy or P2ks stricktly on the other players skill level..Changing the gun stats would even out eras whole vibe. Changing the gun stats would make kids not run nor will make kids not spar and idle at unstick 25/8.
If the guns were changed, and morphed into there price ranges everything will become at peace. Especically since the gangs are getting remodeled, changing the gun stats will make it so Kids who don't have a gun in the price range of 800k-2mil CAN pk and CAN raid. The gun stats don't have to be EXACTLY like the ones before because, the price of the guns now and then HAVE changed..Why not take baby steps? If Tim decieded on doing this, the player count WILL increase because era players don't have to get a gun thats fucking 1mil to kill another kid who has a mil gun. Please change the gun stats..Instead of spending SO MUCH time on things that don't benefit era, please just fix the gun stats..
Thanks - Josh.

hihihihii wrote:

Please help me understand how Tim has allowed the gun stats to get to this level?
The gun stats now are honestly retarded..Each gun doesn't have its own sence of worth now becase each gun has the EXACT same stats...Before, the old gun stats each gun had its own type of sparring style.. Now each gun spars/pk's the same.
It is extremely hard to spar/pk with any gun in the price range of 10k-290k.. vs a gun anything higher than that..Before The gun stats were changed anyone could get owned with a uzi, doens't matter if they are using an Mp5 Navy or P2ks stricktly on the other players skill level..Changing the gun stats would even out eras whole vibe. Changing the gun stats would make kids not run nor will make kids not spar and idle at unstick 25/8.
If the guns were changed, and morphed into there price ranges everything will become at peace. Especically since the gangs are getting remodeled, changing the gun stats will make it so Kids who don't have a gun in the price range of 800k-2mil CAN pk and CAN raid. The gun stats don't have to be EXACTLY like the ones before because, the price of the guns now and then HAVE changed..Why not take baby steps? If Tim decieded on doing this, the player count WILL increase because era players don't have to get a gun thats fucking 1mil to kill another kid who has a mil gun. Please change the gun stats..Instead of spending SO MUCH time on things that don't benefit era, please just fix the gun stats..
Thanks - Josh.

Odd, everything you described to NOT be the problems of the old weapon statistics were exactly their problems and much more. The range of gun stats (difference between an expensive gun and a relatively cheap gun) was astronomical and unless you had a .05 freeze gun, you were in deep #shiet.

Secondly, everything you listed as a PROBLEM with the current guns stats, is quite the contrary to the true circumstances. Listen to your argument: Current gun system, statistically, isn't spread apart far enough. However, you then continue to say: The current gun system is spread apart too far because this gun can't beat that gun. <- Which is it?

Furthermore, the current weapon statistics are skill-based. Meaning, with the appropriate skill, anyone can beat anyone regardless of arms. For instance, an AK47 can probably destroy just about anything thrown at it (I've tested this - flawlessing Mp5 Navies and etc), as well as observed others do similar. As far as I know, doesn't get MUCH cheaper than that.

Lastly, it is odd that, you, one of the most affluent players are complaining about weaker guns not competing with more expensive as a problem of this system. I mean, if that were the case, I don't think you'd be complaining, because said complaint would be directly dis-beneficial to you. On the contrary, I think lower-tier weapons are too closely competitive is why you stress a reverting of weapons so bad.

Word of advice: Analyze your arguments more precisely before stating them.

How does this make any sense?
The guns now aren't based off skill level?
You ARE the best Player on era..Why don't you use a uzi or an ak?
Skill isn't the main factor in the current gun stats..
Skill is a BIG part of the gun stats, but isn't everything. Before, any challenger could of used a cheap 10-200$ gun VS a highly priced gun and could of fairly win or get close to it, STRICTLY based off of skill. Now no opponent with a gun in that price range can beat a Mp5,Souizen,P2ks, ect.

The thing which doens't make sence to me is that you WERE KNOWN for using the Metal Storm which wasn't ever one of the BEST guns on the server. Now you can't use a gun on the server and have a fair fight, that isn't classified as one of the BEST guns.

Before each gun had its own positives and negatives..Now all the guns in its "Tier" have the SAME positive and negatives..Why base guns in Tiers, when their is such a diverse set of guns?

Explain to me Wil, how the SMGPK and the HK416 have the EXACT same gun stats. BUT the stats for the SMGPK IS better than the HK, having a lower reload time.. When the in store price is higher on the HK416, also its payback price?

The Luger, BAR and FAL are mainly based in its own little group, factoring its 25dmg bullets. The stats on the BAR and the Luger's biggest/main difference is that one is semi-auto and the other is automatic. If the FAL's store price and its payback price is higher than both guns why is its stats worse than both guns?

So many Why's and If's now, but didn't come across anyone minds before.
Why is it that the M4's secondary shot has the same stats as the Shipkas, and the Shipka is 175k+ difference?

The guns and its stats aren't even now, nor will they be if it doesn't change..

All of the higher priced guns are at a setprice and they all have different factors in which make them different from the other gun..For an example the S6 and the Mp5 are 2 different guns, with different types of fighting styles..Why is it so that the SMGPK and the Hk416 HAVE THE SAME STATS..Why isn't it so that each gun have its own appeal?

Gun stats will be changed in favor of its changer..

I don't think your pricing for guns really matters.

The economy is so fucked up that anything other than the AK,Uzi and Pistol are so overpriced and shot up in cost that alot of the times it doesn't match the guns.


The real problem however or was... that theres always 1-5 guns that are the best and that everyone wants to use and have.

That's exactly my opinion, it's just the guns everyone wants to use. The prices should be updated a little to reflect the stats of the other guns and be comparable and competitive. I still don't believe the guns need to be updated though. Personally it seems like more of a problem than a good thing to change the stats. Everyone would complain about it, whether or not those complaints are good or bad is all depending on the player. Some players might complain that their gun is weaker and some players might complain that a gun is better than another gun, so my gun should have a buff of some kind. Or maybe even the fact of that my gun used to be worth so much money and now it's practically worthless. Right now, I see more negatives coming from this than positives. Just my opinion though, I want this to be debated though, and if it's done right then we'll make some changes. As of right now though, no ones giving me any real reasons to change the stats other than just simply updating the prices of the guns in the shops and also in the pawn shop.

Also, I'll be honest as well, I could go either way on this, I'm pretty much just on the fence about gun stats whether or not to change them or keep them the same. It's obviously easier to keep them the same and worry about other issues, but like I said, if you can really debate this and make me believe there's actually a real problem here, then by all means, guns will be updated.

This still doesn't Fit..

Why is it so that there is no diversity in guns, but there is in higher priced guns?

How is that fair, to population?

If a fellow new player comes on era, he/shes is most likely going to be stuck with the SAME type of gun just a different GFX..SMGPK & HK

If the EVO VIII and the Subaru Impreza WRX STI have the same engine, same tubro put-out and the Subaru is cheaper what would you buy? Even though they have the SAME driving format? You'd most likely buy the Subie, unless you just like the way the EVO looks.

Changing the Prices at the pawn shop, wont make either or gun feel the same and have its OWN positives and negatives. And will only have the SAME negatives as the previous gun. Lets say Tim changes the price of HK to 60k (below the Price of the SMGPK), that gun will still feel the same as the SMGPK JUST the reload speed would be different. Why not make the gun DIFFERENT and have DIFFERENT positives and negatives?

I only read parts of this cause I assume it is the same whining that went on with the old system, once the system was changed, and continues for some players.

They want change, once you change it, they want it changed back, and etc.

La-De-Da, I wanted to contribute:

A. The guns are much more balanced now than prior, given a simple example of ratios.
Before, an Mp5 Navy popped off with .05 freeze, to an MS which had .1 freeze. This is a ratio of 1:2.
Now, an Mp5 Navy has .1 freeze, comparable to the MS which is .15 freeze. Not to be confused, rationalized as 2:3.

In case you don't follow, the gap between 2:3 is significantly less than that of 1:2.

Therefore, the guns are much more balanced (The gaps are smaller). Yet the range is about the same as it was before for each given stat, so there isn't really a case for ' so many guns have the same stats' or whatever, simply put: There are too many guns for the current scale of weapon stats to output distinct variations between every weapon.

B. Mp5 Navy is probably the most common weapon on Era right now. Everyone who doesn't own one, has access to one... and you can almost always catch 10-15 of them online at any given time. So I don't really see how any of this is a problem right now. Oh and as for the 'new' players, most of the people I see utilizing said Navies have < 500 hours.

C. Oh and, price ranges are the absolute worst way to balance anything imho. Don't even try that.

Funny thing is, that the gangs were changed and is getting changed BACK to the old system with some tweaks....Exactly what i am trying to proceed.

Before the price range of the Mp5 and Metal Storm weren't on the same terms, and yet a Metal Storm user with significant skills could of beaten an Mp5 user. Now that ratio has dropped because of how big of a difference 1.0 is to a 1.5 freeze rate. The Metal Storm before was a gun of perfection, it was sparrable raidable and had a sense of worth.

The Metal Storm now and all of the guns in the price range of 1,000$-290,000$ are known as "noobie" guns because of the HUGE difference in gun stats.

Every weapon now is judged apon the Mp5, from my stand point. But before was judged by a gun that was merely 25k-50k more.

Keeping the gun stats now would be COMPLETELY easier than taking the time and effort to revert them to the previous gun stats. BUT, would that honestly help out for the better, or bring more negatives later on in eras life time.

If and when Era has a new Graphics/Gun Admin, he decides to bring new guns..There is emense room to store a higher priced gun in the tier 1, because of the diversity in higher priced guns. Making it so that one gun isnt' simply the other gun with lower reload speed.

The higher priced guns and its stats ARE equal to its own division, BUT compared to the lower priced gun isn't even close.

I'm not really seeing any real reasons to change the stats.

I hate to be the bearer of the obvious, but the gun admins past and current (no idea if there is a current one of who it is) have fucked up guns so much.




Main problem with changing guns is the obvious whining. Then you have to deal with a price increase that comes out of nowhere.

Then again the economy is so screwed up does it really matter if guns change prices?


I don't see any reasons to change gun stats tim unless you yourself want to change how guns are being priced and used.

Then again Hihihihi has a good point. There are about 30 Mediocre guns, and 5 really good guns that everyone wants. Wheres the diversity?

I voted to change the stats back to the original ones, but only because changing them to new unique stats wasn't an option.

Here are some examples of flaws with the current guns:
-A lot of the prices don't make sense for the guns.
The HK416 and M4 could probably do with switching prices, since the M4 has the exact same stats plus 2-shot mode and costs 100k less in the shop. The P90's 15 damage and .15 freeze make it one of the worst guns, price-performance wise.

-The top tier guns, i.e. the only guns worth using, are about 3-10x as expensive as a middle-tier gun, but only 33% better. (referring to the 2:3 ratio of freeze.)
One of the biggest issues, though not strictly a gun stats issue, is the exclusivity of guns, and management not fixing problems with gun stats/prices to avoid pissing off the uppercrust of era, when they only make up 20% of the players. There's no reason any gun should be over a mil. This is more of an economic, rather than stats problem though.

-Some guns just aren't worth using, because an AK47 is better. (i.e. anything with more than .15 freeze, that doesn't do more than 20 damage. The SG556 and AP7s come to mind.) Angels, though not the same scenario as SG556 and AP7s, are in just as bad a spot. Angels were easily 50-60k each before. Now they're 30k each or less. Horrible rate of fire, horrible freeze, not worth using.

-Weapons that cost ECs and MVP coins suck.
before the Great Nerf of 2011, the Bow was 200-300k, the Flak was 200-400k, the MP5 SD was 300k, the Samurai Sword was 500-600k, The PL-9 Laser was 100-200k, the LS was 300-400k.

-Shotguns are rarely seen anymore due to their ridiculous reload times. It takes literally 7 seconds to reload all 20 shots of a PL-9 shotgun. Which is about 20x longer than it takes to reload an MP5. The other shotguns aren't much better.

-Gang guns are the best/are competitive with the best guns in the game. This isn't a major problem in my eyes, because the gang guns have to be earned, but then so does 1.5mil to buy a gun. Not a HUGE deal really, but I'd be remiss to exclude the issue altogether.

-Sellback values for guns are completely inconsistent. Some guns, such as the BAR, Luger, as M4 had their sellback values lowered so people would be more reluctant to sell them to the shop. Interfering with the economy in that way just causes artificially low rarity (double negative, I know) because people would rather hold onto a gun they don't like than lose 200k.
As for the guns whose sellback values weren't engineered to reduce the number of sellbacks, The ratio of Shop Price:Sellback Value is all over the place.

To give a few examples:
Taurus - sells back for 18.75% of its shop price.
M3 - 14.28%
G36c - 87.5%
MS - 71.42$
ACR - 76.47%
BAR - 57.14%
Luger - 26.66%

Look at that everyone, some actual logic. Like I said, I'm on the fence about the whole thing, and it looks like a lot of players want the stats to change in some way. I honestly have no idea where the backups for these stats are, so that's out of the question. So, if something were to happen here, I'd say just subtle changes of certain guns to make things a little more balanced.

fiberwire wrote:

I voted to change the stats back to the original ones, but only because changing them to new unique stats wasn't an option.

Here are some examples of flaws with the current guns:
-A lot of the prices don't make sense for the guns.
The HK416 and M4 could probably do with switching prices, since the M4 has the exact same stats plus 2-shot mode and costs 100k less in the shop. The P90's 15 damage and .15 freeze make it one of the worst guns, price-performance wise.

-The top tier guns, i.e. the only guns worth using, are about 3-10x as expensive as a middle-tier gun, but only 33% better. (referring to the 2:3 ratio of freeze.)
One of the biggest issues, though not strictly a gun stats issue, is the exclusivity of guns, and management not fixing problems with gun stats/prices to avoid pissing off the uppercrust of era, when they only make up 20% of the players. There's no reason any gun should be over a mil. This is more of an economic, rather than stats problem though.

-Some guns just aren't worth using, because an AK47 is better. (i.e. anything with more than .15 freeze, that doesn't do more than 20 damage. The SG556 and AP7s come to mind.) Angels, though not the same scenario as SG556 and AP7s, are in just as bad a spot. Angels were easily 50-60k each before. Now they're 30k each or less. Horrible rate of fire, horrible freeze, not worth using.

-Weapons that cost ECs and MVP coins suck.
before the Great Nerf of 2011, the Bow was 200-300k, the Flak was 200-400k, the MP5 SD was 300k, the Samurai Sword was 500-600k, The PL-9 Laser was 100-200k, the LS was 300-400k.

-Shotguns are rarely seen anymore due to their ridiculous reload times. It takes literally 7 seconds to reload all 20 shots of a PL-9 shotgun. Which is about 20x longer than it takes to reload an MP5. The other shotguns aren't much better.

-Gang guns are the best/are competitive with the best guns in the game. This isn't a major problem in my eyes, because the gang guns have to be earned, but then so does 1.5mil to buy a gun. Not a HUGE deal really, but I'd be remiss to exclude the issue altogether.

-Sellback values for guns are completely inconsistent. Some guns, such as the BAR, Luger, as M4 had their sellback values lowered so people would be more reluctant to sell them to the shop. Interfering with the economy in that way just causes artificially low rarity (double negative, I know) because people would rather hold onto a gun they don't like than lose 200k.
As for the guns whose sellback values weren't engineered to reduce the number of sellbacks, The ratio of Shop Price:Sellback Value is all over the place.

To give a few examples:
Taurus - sells back for 18.75% of its shop price.
M3 - 14.28%
G36c - 87.5%
MS - 71.42$
ACR - 76.47%
BAR - 57.14%
Luger - 26.66%

Being the one that brought about the current gun stats, I guess I'll get more involved in the discussion.

This being one of the few sensible responses and as far as I can tell, one that encompasses all your complaints, I'll start from here.

To begin: When I set the weapon statistics, my next objective was to re-adjust the store pricings (sellback and sell price) to match these new settings. However, Alfonso did not allow me to venture into this arena and when advised to, refused to touch the store prices himself. Therefore, the prices of weapons are in NO WAY my doing.

Secondly, the shotgun reloads were NOT to be added (Alfonso's idea) without further adjustment. This is due to the fact that their reloadtimes were SET using the typical (press a once) system. Had I been they told they'd be switched, I would've set them accordingly to the NEW system. Either way, this can easily be amended (not a big deal).

Lastly, the issue with variation is nonexistent. The current guns were set on a scale that can best be characterized as, "separate but equal", only in name. I realize that a separate equal is not possible (logically), but you get the idea. Any gun within a tier, is set within the SAME bounds as another gun in the same tier. However, despite similar limitations, I'm SURE you've all noticed that SOME guns feel better than others even though they're statistically similar.

To be honest, I figured out that depending on how you correlate freezetime, sleeptime, and etc, the "feel" of a weapon can be manipulated. I instilled this find in what I call, "hidden treasure" weapons. Basically, weapons of lower tier with a solid feel that make them a "bang" for your buck. i.e. Mk23s, Ak47 and etc.

Other than that, if you all were NOT capable of viewing weapon stats via PM, you would be quite the task to pick up similarities between weapons. So basically, this lack of variation is due to you being able to NUMERICALLY see the stats.

Any who, enough explanations, now on to the points:

Every argument you've listed here, Fiberwyre (and I'm sure you realize it), pertains to the inconsistency in the PRICING of weapons, i.e. all basically all bolded points.

In response, the changing of weapons stats to accommodate street-regarded prices is absolutely irrational. Beyond that, changing weapon statistics based on any economic standards is also irrational. You do not set statistics based on economic standards because these standards CONSTANTLY change.

Speaking of which, that was one of the major issues with the prior statistical settings. In this system, if John bought all of the P2Ks, he whined to whoever the Guns Admin was to buff them because they're now all his and their street-regarded values have increased. We've moved on from that, and I'm sure we all agree, its down-right retarded.

Therefore, instead of that, what you do is adjust prices (store-prices - easily done) to accommodate statistical changes. That means any statistical change you emit, you adjust store pricing accordingly. This was not done for the current stats, and THIS is the sole problem with the current settings.

Lastly, I did not forget your argument with guns not worth using Fiberwyre. Tier 1 guns (most of them) are basically a springboard until you reach Tier 2. They are probably the smallest tier (numerically) and make up but few weapons. These guns were supposed to be dirt cheap for the new players until they were able to muster enough money for a Tier 2 gun. Furthermore, this process wasn't supposed to be longer than 1-2 weeks because the prices of Tier 2 Guns were to be PROPERLY adjusted. - Basically, its the same issue... PRICES.

Overall, you gentlemen must understand, gun prices now and gun statistics now are two distinctive entities, they shouldn't be. So I completely agree that the prices need to be adjusted to better fit the statistics and would gladly do so if allowed (be finishing what I started anyway). As far as stats go, there is no issue, and the term "balance" is used in every sense. In that altering one stat, means altering multiple ones. Hence why I wrote in the Era Code of Arms, that once a weapon is released, its stats should NEVER be changed for it should be carefully set and tested in the first place. No "oops! thats lamer than i thought, lemme get dat!"

Just a note, this issue existed in the old system alongside a cornucopia of other ones. This imaginary "balance" Josh sees did not exist and anyone would attest to this. As far as gang guns go: I have edited them all on Dev to fit Tier 2 Statistical Standards, however, I must warn... that their "feel" is very closely related to tier 3 (Done so by using the concept previously described).

I'm no rocket scientist, but it seems like every single problem described by Fiber, and even Josh (we all know you just bitched because you bought a HK to realize SMGPK is better for half the price) are more or less caused by, or affected in some manner by the economy or prices of the guns.

Seriously, you can check every one of Fiber's little topics and it involves a price figure within it. Josh's comeback from my previous notes took a primitive example (it was just a before/after example) and took it the distance with full price ranges being included.

So why is the thread and even the poll on Era regarding gun stats? It seems pretty obvious to me that the problem is the gun prices, or really just the economy... which has been shitty for years so what's up here guys?

Case closed!

So it seems like the prices are exactly what's wrong here. Also I really hate the reload on shotguns, so that might be something worth changing. As for the pricing, if you think they're off, place the correct shop value, and pawn value in here and we will look into it and decide if it's worth changing.

Changing the store and sell back prices will do nothing besides ruin the economy even more..

Players might of bought a gun that was 100k, and now is 60k..

The senario will just make the ratio even more unbalanced..

The guns and its prices weren't finished from what i heard..

Why not restart the whole process slowly and more efficiently?

Changing the prices of guns won't fix how un-diverse the Tier 2 guns are..

Just from a standpoint of someone who looked at most and tl;dr'd. Wil, your viewpoint on guns is individual if not only shared by like 5 people TOPS, you shouldn't have been in charge of guns because you can rape with anything, also stop using hashtag or I'll delete your posts, this isn't fuckin twitter.
Fiber had fuckin excellent points an yes, revamp the gun stats.

The economy needs a reset.

Or Era needs a reset really. Pretty much what it comes down to.


There's no value to anything anymore. You could make alot of changes and improvements with a clean slate and i think alot of people wouldnt mind restarting fresh.

*Jess wrote:

The economy needs a reset.

Or Era needs a reset really. Pretty much what it comes down to.


There's no value to anything anymore. You could make alot of changes and improvements with a clean slate and i think alot of people wouldnt mind restarting fresh.

I wouldn't mind, as long as like my hp level, mining level, and properties weren't reset. Rich players like Seth even agree with this idea

Booger Scelus wrote:

*Jess wrote:

The economy needs a reset.

Or Era needs a reset really. Pretty much what it comes down to.


There's no value to anything anymore. You could make alot of changes and improvements with a clean slate and i think alot of people wouldnt mind restarting fresh.

I wouldn't mind, as long as like my hp level, mining level, and properties weren't reset. Rich players like Seth even agree with this idea

I'd agree to mining levels and what not effectively remaining.

But the economy is so fucked up that things like the Mall and shit aren't benefiting from the economies full potential.

it's like even if you update things like the flower shop and other various jobs it has no major impact.

The rich get richer and the poor.... well they don't really advance.

Fixing the gun stats WILL fix era..

It just matters when Tim starts..

His main priority right now is the Gangs, which i am more than happy about..

Ehhh, atleast i tried to make a change..

hihihihii wrote:

Fixing the gun stats WILL fix era..

It just matters when Tim starts..

His main priority right now is the Gangs, which i am more than happy about..

Ehhh, atleast i tried to make a change..

Era isn't broken. It's just missing its full potential. Guns are easily fixable.

Fix the economy and you unlocked another element to Era besides guns and gangs.

*Jess wrote:

it's like even if you update things like the flower shop and other various jobs it has no major impact.

The rich get richer and the poor.... well they don't really advance.

I've been saying this since Day 1.

How should we fix the economy? Right now, it just seems like there's not enough cash to balance out the amount of guns there are in the economy.

Tim_Rocks wrote:

How should we fix the economy? Right now, it just seems like there's not enough cash to balance out the amount of guns there are in the economy.

Your fault for making gun rental.